Please settle this:
An historical
A historical
I KNOW you guys know how important it is.
Thanks.
Darla
An historical
A historical
I KNOW you guys know how important it is.
Thanks.
Darla
posted by:
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, June 1, 2005 - 12:02 PMWell, I would say it's A historical, since I was taught that only words begining in vowels receive an "an."
However, I know there are always exceptions to the rule, and "h" is often so silent a letter, perhaps with the open vowel sound at the begining of this word some people do feel more comfortable with using "an."
So, my opinion is "a," but I'm open to someone else saying "Nay."
~smile~
Meredith
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, June 1, 2005 - 12:11 PMI don't think either choice would get you into any trouble, but I'll respectfully disagree with the previous contributor and recommend "an" -- particularly if you are speaking rather than writing.
Two main reasons: (1) If you say "a historical" it's possible that you could be misheard as saying "ahistorical," which changes the meaning you wish to convey. (2) "An historical" sounds more mellifluous than "a historical" because with the former you would naturally drop the aspirated "h" while with the latter you would need to accentuate the aspiration in order to avoid sounding as if you were using the wrong article. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Thu, June 2, 2005 - 12:15 AMThe use of "an" before words beginng with "h" is characteristic of British usage, whereas in American usage, "an" is used only before words beginning with a vowel. Sadly, although "an" is preferable for the reasons J.D. gives, its use before "h" is declining everywhere. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Fri, June 3, 2005 - 11:55 AMInterestingly enough, I was fussing around with this topic, reading the other responses, and while reading aloud, I actually said "an" rather than "a." So, I am going to be changing my opinion slightly, and saying that if you are speaking out loud definitely the "an" sounds much more proper than "a."
But still in the written I'm sticking with my "a."
~smile~
Meredith -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Fri, June 3, 2005 - 12:24 PM<So, I am going to be changing my opinion slightly, and saying that if you are speaking out loud definitely the "an" sounds much more proper than "a."
But still in the written I'm sticking with my "a." >
Agree 100%. It is different when you say it from whn you write it.
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Mon, June 13, 2005 - 1:56 AMThe rule, actually, as I understand it, is that "an" is used before words that start with a vowel *sound*. Hence, "an hour", but "a house" (and "a historical"). -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Mon, June 13, 2005 - 2:35 AMSo it's the Brits who say "an historical"? And some of you are lamenting the loss of this odd habit in the States? Do those same Brits, I wonder, say "an history lesson"? Can they detect "an horrible odor"? What are the chances, were I rich and in love, that I could "an happier man" be? Could I take a wife and become to her "an husband"?
Who talks like that? Who would want to? I would, sure, but that's only acause I like to make people laugh. And laugh and laugh.
I side with Bryan. I'm a bandwagoner of the Sensemakers. Guilty as charged. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, June 15, 2005 - 9:49 AMA, a, a historical, please!
The "an" use with words like this always sounds stilted and affected to me, and the chance for misinterpretation ("ahistorical") seems minimal at best. Don't get me wrong, I'm half English and respect our style differences--I wouldn't change this in a manuscript from the UK, since it's technically acceptable--but in American usage, especially in dialogue, it sounds and looks and reads much more smoothly if we stick with the rule of using "an" only before words that begin with a vowel sound.
My three cents. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, June 15, 2005 - 10:04 AMWell, one and all, I bow in humble appreciation for your wisdom. In the document, we finally went with... drum roll please...
a historical.
It does, however, bring up another point for me, and that is how come we say an herb and not a herb?
I don't mean to split hairs, just wondering.
Thanks a million for your perspectives.
D. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Tue, June 21, 2005 - 4:40 PMI think it's the same as what was said above, that the "an" precedes words that have vowel sounds as their first sylable. And since "herb" is correctly prounounced without a hard "h," you would say "an herb."
Just my opinion though
~smile~
Meredith -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, June 22, 2005 - 12:10 PMSo would a Cockney, who would likely pronounce the "h" of herb, therefore be more likely to say "a herb?" -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, June 22, 2005 - 12:11 PMLong or short A?
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Thu, June 23, 2005 - 9:37 AMNot entirely sure, but I think since the Cockeny accent is a complete dialiact, having it's own colloquial expressions and words, that it has it's own drastically different grammer rules for it's spoken word-like any of the pidgeon (spelling!) languages here combine grammer rules from several different languages to come up with guidelines. So You'd have to ask someone who speaks Cockeny for that answer. ;)
~smile~
Meredith -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Fri, January 20, 2006 - 7:00 PMi don't speak cockney,
but years and years i lived near the bells of bow church
and there we never ever drank an herb tea...
but maybe that was only english...
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Sat, July 9, 2005 - 9:48 AMI must be affected. I say "an" before "historical" and "historic" because I don't pronounce the H--and this is coming from a guy who grew up talking like Yosemite Sam (third-generation Arizonan). Obviously, as my education increased, so did my register not only in terms lexical items and style, but in terms of pronunciation as well.
While were on the subject of affectations, I keep "whom" around especially in my formal writing as an object of prepositions; yet, I also use it when speaking formally even the the purely objective sense. I must sound like the highly affected, but exquisitely educated Alan Shore on Boston Legal. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Sat, July 9, 2005 - 1:58 PMTroy -
My FAVE Alan Shore quote (in his precise way of speaking): "I am NOT a snot." God, I love that man.
Where the heck is the show? I feel so ripped. And I adore Betty White.
Yeah, it's off topic. But the show rocks!
D. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Sun, July 10, 2005 - 1:00 AMD,
The show, as I understand it, was taken off for that hideous "Gray's Anatomy" (or whatever it is) which turned out to be an unexpected success. ABC decided to run the new show in that time slot for the rest of the season and stuffed "Boston Legal" up their sleeve--like an ace--to be used this fall.
Getting somewhat back to the topic, Shore is an unabashed whom freak--listen to him talk. Better yet, let's listen for him to say "historical" or "historic." Dimes to donuts he doesn't pronounce the H.
t
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Fri, July 8, 2005 - 11:27 PMOkay, I'm sticking by what I wrote in my earlier post, but for an opposing viewpoint, here's what I just found in a digital version of Webster's 1913 dictionary:
<quote>
Note: An is used before a word beginning with a vowel sound;
as, an enemy, an hour. It is also often used before h
sounded, when the accent of the word falls on the
second syllable; as, an historian, an hyena, an heroic
deed. Many writers use a before h in such positions.
Anciently an was used before consonants as well as
vowels.
</quote>
I intend to continue judging by initial sound alone, but figured this was worth a mention. -
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Re: Ok, Grammarians, I need you!
Wed, July 20, 2005 - 5:16 PMi actually agree with the above quote.
i think that dealing with the aspirated h sound has little to do with vowel sound and much more to do with elision.
for the sake of the flow of language, you simply say things like "an historic" in order to prevent the awkwardness of "a historic" which just plain sounds awful, in my opinion.
english can much too often be a very ugly language, and in the few places where we're still given the option to elide our words, despite the fact that the habit is mostly a holdover from french, we should!
~e.
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