How does this get punctuated?

topic posted Wed, March 28, 2007 - 5:17 PM by 
Someone wrote a post to me which said: Kinda weird, Mick.

So I want to ask the person to repeat themselves with a question like this:

Did you write, "Kinda weird, Mick?"

Which I assume is correct. But does the question-mark, strictly speaking, change the nature of what's in the quotation marks? I mean, obviously, it cannot be: "Kinda weird, Mick."?
posted by:
  • Re: How does this get punctuated?

    Thu, March 29, 2007 - 10:21 PM
    I believe in that instance, the question mark goes OUTSIDE the quotation mark, because it is not part of the phrase INSIDE the quote.

    It would be:

    Did you write, "Kinda weird, Mick."?
  • Re: How does this get punctuated?

    Fri, March 30, 2007 - 8:08 AM
    I, also, don't think it obviously--your word--can't be "Kinda weird, Mick."?

    If this media allowed italics, then I would think Kinda weird, Mick. in italics followed by a ? in straight text would be acceptable. Since quotation marks are an accepted way of setting off text where italics aren't possible, I don't mind "Kinda weird, Mick."?
  • Re: How does this get punctuated?

    Sat, March 31, 2007 - 5:24 PM
    The question mark refers to the "Did you write" part of the sentence... and the rest is the actual quote, so... whereas normally if the actual quote was a question, the question mark would go inside the quotes... in this case, the question mark goes outside the quotes.
    • Re: How does this get punctuated?

      Thu, May 24, 2007 - 1:51 PM
      Another copyeditor's vote for:

      Did you write, "Kinda weird, Mick"?

      Final period is implied, so it's not needed; and the question mark applies to the initial clause instead of the cited text, so it goes outside the quotes.
      • Re: How does this get punctuated?

        Thu, July 5, 2007 - 6:33 PM
        yes i also stand with this assertion ;)
        • Re: How does this get punctuated?

          Fri, July 13, 2007 - 1:09 PM
          I just asked my English professor Uncle, who says the question mark must go INSIDE the quotation marks.
          • Re: How does this get punctuated?

            Sat, July 14, 2007 - 9:20 AM
            Here's the rule:

            "At the end of a sentence, a question mark or an exclamation point goes inside the closing quotation mark when it applies only to the quoted material."

            Source: Gregg Reference Manual by William A.Sabin, 10th edition. A Manual of Style, Grammar, Usage, and Formatting.
            • Re: How does this get punctuated?

              Sat, July 14, 2007 - 10:45 AM
              And the question mark in this case is not part of the quoted material, and thus goes outside the quotation mark. The question mark refers to the "did you" part of the sentence, not the quoted part of the sentence.
              • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                Sun, July 15, 2007 - 6:45 PM
                That's not what the rule is saying. The mark applies to the quoted material, though the material may not itself be a question. Thus, it goes inside the quotes.
                • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                  Sun, July 15, 2007 - 6:49 PM
                  Mickey, I'm going to have to disagree with you. If it doesn't directly apply to the material, that is, the material is not a question, then the question mark would go outside of the quote.

                  And I'm the moderator, so there.





                  ...j/k, really.
                • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                  Sun, July 15, 2007 - 8:17 PM
                  I think you are interpreting the rule incorrectly. And that is quite aside from my gut instinct, which is correct 99 and 44/100 % of the time.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: How does this get punctuated?

                    Sun, July 15, 2007 - 8:30 PM
                    No disrespect intended, but I got the info from the hardest core English professor I know. Shall we ask a few others? I would like that, actually.
                    • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                      Sun, July 15, 2007 - 11:37 PM
                      The rule you quote says, "applies only to the quoted material," and the keyword here is only. The question mark is punctuating the question, "Did you..."

                      You are, of course, free to disagree.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: How does this get punctuated?

                        Mon, July 16, 2007 - 8:42 AM
                        Perhaps it's a man thing, the way I read the rule I think it goes inside the quotation marks as well. But it does also depend on how you read the original question. Perhaps another example would be in order?
                        • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                          Sun, July 29, 2007 - 2:44 AM
                          I believe the "correct" thing to do is to put it inside the quotes; however, this is one rule that I find to be so illogical that I disobey it anyway.

                          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quot...unctuation says that the American (not British) rule for periods and commas is to put them inside, but that question and exclamation marks can be inside or outside according to logic, and that colons and semicolons go outside.
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: How does this get punctuated?

                            Tue, October 23, 2007 - 1:35 PM
                            Mickey explained:
                            Someone wrote a post to me which said: Kinda weird, Mick.

                            So I want to ask the person to repeat themselves with a question like this:

                            1. For U.S. publications every source I referenced indicated Mickey’s question is correctly punctuated thus:

                            Did you write, "Kinda weird, Mick"?

                            As most have correctly suggested, the entire sentence is the question, not the quoted portion – and double end marks are not proper.

                            2. However, one grammatical problem was not addressed. “Someone” and “the person” are singular, yet the person was referred to by “themselves,” a plural. So Mickey’s question should read:

                            So I want to ask the person to repeat himself (or herself, as the case may be) with a question like this:

                            --Another hard core English professor
                            • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                              Tue, October 23, 2007 - 10:12 PM
                              So there is no punctuation inside the ending double-quotes?
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: How does this get punctuated?

                                Thu, October 25, 2007 - 1:28 PM
                                Mickey,

                                Assuming we are discussing punctuation for U.S. publication and not U.K. publication, the answer is there is no punctuation inside the ending double-quotes in the case of: Did you write, "Kinda weird, Mick"?

                                Editing rules for U.S. publications are neither superior nor inferior to those for U.K. publications. The two merely differ.

                                Chicago Manual of Style agrees with Modern Language Association and Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English on the issue: “The question mark should be placed inside the quotation marks, parentheses, or brackets only when it is part of the quoted or parenthetical matter.”

                                In your example, the entire sentence is the question, not the quoted material; thus the question mark is outside the end quote.

                                Chicago Manual of Style also says, “When two different marks of punctuation are called for at the same location in a sentence, the stronger mark only is retained.”

                                In your example, there’s no debate I can see for the use of an end mark different from the question mark.

                                Or have I overlooked a clue in this mystery? Ha ha ha, these puzzles are fun for old has-been research nuts.
                                • Re: How does this get punctuated?

                                  Thu, October 25, 2007 - 3:55 PM
                                  And your research is impeccable. The last "hanging chad" of confusion for me is: If the intent is to preserve the nature of the quote by putting the punctuation outside of the quotation marks, what happens to the period that was part of the original statement?
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: How does this get punctuated?

                                    Thu, October 25, 2007 - 4:43 PM
                                    Sorry I wasn't clearer, Mickey. That's the part covered by “When two different marks of punctuation are called for at the same location in a sentence, the stronger mark only is retained.”

                                    U.S. stylebooks discourage more than one period in a sentence, so the period at the end of the quote is removed in favor of the question mark at the very end. It's as if the end quote were not there, and the writer must choose the stronger end mark of the two.

                                    I realize you may have seen it otherwise. I taught English in a little college forty miles south of the Canadian border. Because we enjoyed an international student body, I let each writer choose allegence and tried to stay up on U.K. spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Even though my training is the U.S. variant of English, I believe I've seen Canadian texts where your sentence would be written: Did you write, "Kinda weird, Mick."?

                                    I'm sure that's where all the different "rulings" came from. As George Bernard Shaw quipped, "England and America are two countries separated by a common language."

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