Here's a sentence by Paul Krugman:
Today those differences still exist but are much narrower, in part because of economic growth (which means that more people can afford an adequate diet), but also in large part because of public spending on sanitation, disease control, and health insurance systems that try, however, imperfectly, to provide essential care to everyone.
I'm interested in his use of "however, imperfectly." Should there be a comma in there?
Today those differences still exist but are much narrower, in part because of economic growth (which means that more people can afford an adequate diet), but also in large part because of public spending on sanitation, disease control, and health insurance systems that try, however, imperfectly, to provide essential care to everyone.
I'm interested in his use of "however, imperfectly." Should there be a comma in there?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Is this correct?
Sat, March 26, 2005 - 11:54 PMThere could be, if his sense is "systems that try imperfectly" qualified with the "however", but I doubt that's his sense. Classic error. Blech. No comma. The phrase "however imperfectly" gets no comma. You could move the whole phrase back two words, after "provide" and, for, the most part, retain sense, poetry, and elegance [sic]. HAH!
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Re: Is this correct?
Fri, April 1, 2005 - 4:25 PMI don't know what Krugman was trying to say, but I read what's there as being equivalent to
"and health insurance systems that try, however, to provide essential care to everyone, though imperfectly."
The fact that it causes confusion makes it bad writing, either way. :) -
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Re: Is this correct?
Mon, April 11, 2005 - 11:01 PMNope, no comma needed there, regardless of meaning. Agreed the writing is weak. -
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Re: Is this correct?
Tue, April 12, 2005 - 8:41 PMKay, so I actually just went to dictionary.com on "however" and found are some interesting bits. First off, they actually have an example like what seemed to be Krugman's intended use:
To whatever degree or extent: “have begun, however reluctantly, to acknowledge the legitimacy of some of the concerns” (Christopher Lasch).
They also have this weird usage as a synonym for "all the same" or "still:" despite anything to the contrary (usually following a concession); "although I'm a little afraid, however I'd like to try it."
P.S. Should that colon be inside the quotes after "still" above? It sure doesn't look right. -
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Re: Is this correct?
Tue, April 12, 2005 - 9:00 PM"P.S. Should that colon be inside the quotes after "still" above? It sure doesn't look right."
I believe the Chicago Manual of Style says it should go outside. However, I don't have the book handy. -
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Re: Is this correct?
Wed, April 13, 2005 - 9:13 PMMark is right about CMS: Colons go outside quote marks, as do semicolons. I wish I didn't always have that book handy, but these days, it feels like it's surgically attached. -
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Re: Is this correct?
Thu, April 14, 2005 - 10:22 AMMia: Is there an online reference you use when your CMS isn't handy? I only have one copy, and it's never around when I need it. If I'm at work, it's at home. If I'm at home, it's at work. Never fails.
How old is the CMS? Would a first edition be old enough to be out of copyright? Anyone working on getting an old edition online? -
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Re: Is this correct?
Fri, April 15, 2005 - 9:46 PMHey Mark, first edition of CMS was published in 1906...I didn't realize it had been around so long. Thanks for motivating me to check.
To search CMS online, go to www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/search.html and register. It's free. Then you can peruse at will. But I think the TOC and index are the book's most confusing features, so good luck finding what you're looking for! Not that it's any easier in the print edition.
OK, I need to get back to work. Big deadline. CMS is staring at me. -
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Re: Is this correct?
Mon, April 18, 2005 - 4:50 PMThanks Mia, that site is very useful!
I wish the whole book, even an old edition, was available online. Would the first edition be out of copyright?
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